Food and fat (part 3)
Posted March 16, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Alright, I’ve been putting this off because I’m still having trouble putting all the pieces together in my head. But I’m just going to go with what I got, and will add more later.
So, in part one of this thread, I talked about coming across the following from Pattie Thomas, someone very prominent in the fat acceptance movement:
Food is something we should enjoy as human beings. It is irrelevant to fat.
I blogged a bit about my gut reaction to this, and then in part two, I talked specifically about what I believe as far as food and fat.
In this last part, I want to explore what Tish has very graciously and patiently discussed with me: how a weight loss/dieting approach to food and fat is (or can be perceived to be) hurtful to those in the fat acceptance movement.
Recently, Tish and I were discussing my blog post celebrating my finding my lap. I shared that the happiness about the lap really related to my experiences at 370+ being unable to have my nieces and nephew be able to sit on my lap.
And then I wrote:
I think that it should be okay for me to make my own choices about my weight and fat.
I know you’re not suggesting that I need to stay fat to make anyone else feel okay about their weight, but that seems to leave a Catch-22: is it possible for me to be happy about losing weight without hurting others?
To which she responded:
I am saying that your JUBILANCE about weight loss seems to suggest that there is something bad about being fat. … Is it possible for you to be happy about losing weight without hurting others? Sure. Be happy quietly.
Hmmm…I am not sure what I think about this.
A couple of days later…
This has been an interesting thought exercise. I guess I initially couldn’t accept that Tish was right. I wanted to believe that there had to be a way of intellectualizing this so that I what I was doing was okay, that I had a right to be publically jubilant about my weight loss.
But you know what? Tish is right.
What clicked for me was how much this paralleled something that happened recently in my life. The company I work for has recently instituted a fabulous new benefit where employees who have seven or more years of service in good standing are now able to take a four-week paid sabbatical.
I cannot tell you how excited I am about this. I haven’t had that kind of time off since I started working in 1981 that didn’t involve either moving or having to look for a job.
However, a woman I work closely with (we eat lunch together nearly every single day) isn’t eligible for this benefit, as she doesn’t have high enough scores on her performance appraisal. Once I found out about this, it was a no-brainer that I couldn’t go on-and-on about how excited I was about this benefit without being pretty hurtful.
So, while I realize that Act Boldly is my blog to do with what I want, I don’t want to do anything hurtful if I can avoid it. So I hope to be a bit more sensitive in the future.
However, there’s still another issue raised in Tish’s comment that I want to briefly tackle here (with more to follow later). That’s the question of whether there is “something bad about being fat.”
I think there canbe, at least on an individual basis (e.g., I think my fat contributed to my fibroids). And it seems to me that the implication that it’s okay to be “privately” happy about weight loss means that at least at a personal level, fat can be “bad” … or at least, weight loss can be “good.”
Ultimately, I think fat (or at least the behaviors that got some of us there) can be unhealthy. And so, while no one should be badly treated and/or discriminated against because of their size or their measure of “health” (whatever that means), it is a conceivable/possible/likely connection between fat and health that to me makes it seem unlikely that weight will ever be a universally neutral characteristic like one’s eye color.
There is a very interesting thread on Big Fat Blog on health and wellness that shows that this is a touchy subject, even among those who are generally fat positive.
Speaking of Big Fat Blog, it appears that my ability to post comments there has been turned off sometime between March 6th (when I posted on the forum re airline seats) and today. I’m not sure why this is. I may have been a bit like a bull in a china shop initially, but certainly there have been things posted there in the same vein as my posts (see the thread above) that didn’t seem to affect others posting privileges.
I’m not sure if this has to do with a comment here regarding the site’s owner, or a subsequent (and I thought polite) email exchange between said owner and myself. Or perhaps he (or a friend) is unhappy about some (I thought polite) discussions I’ve been having on two other FA blogs.
Hard to say. I’ve emailed Paul of BFB this AM, and have not heard back yet.
For now, I guess I’m going to put my explorations in the fat acceptance movement on hold. For too many members of the fat acceptance movement, I bring unecessary baggage. Interestingly, this seems to be similar to the difficulties bisexuals face from some members of the gay community. Note the following:
One common motive for negative attitudes toward bisexuality among lesbians is the fear that a bisexual woman will leave a woman for a man; the heterosexual male is seen as having an unfair systemic advantage both due to sexism and due to homophobia. Bisexual persons may also be the target of homophobia from those who consider only heterosexuality appropriate. The reverse can also apply in that bisexual persons may be targets of heterophobia or discrimination by some gays/homosexuals - this is especially prevalent amongst bisexual men.
Many anti-bisexuals also believe that bisexuality is a trend, especially a teenage one, popularised by bisexual musicians, actors, etc. (i.e. the term, he built a window in his closet): some also believe it is a stage in adolescence which happens to everyone which people grow out of and that therefore bisexuals are worse people for making an issue out of it. Some also believe bisexuals are just attention seeking for comfort or sex. However, these claims have no scientific grounds at all.
Some radical lesbian feminists think that bisexual women are giving in to patriarchy.
The last one in particular sounds similar…radical fat acceptance seekers believe that women trying to lose weight or be healthy are giving in to our fat-obsessed culture.
Maybe, maybe not.
I guess it’s really distressing to think I’m such a lightning rod in the fat acceptance movement. So, while I firmly believe in fat rights, and think it is worth a serious level of activism to change our political and cultural landscape, I’m going to back out. I am just not well equipped at this time to spend the psychic energy required to actively participate in such a polarizing discussion.
Bummer.
March 16th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Perfect analogy! Of course you’re happy about getting any benefit in life. And I wouldn’t want to take that away from you. I would never say that you should not celebrate your successes as you define them. But you get that when and where and how much can be hurtful. Ya know, I wouldn’t have ever read your blog if you didn’t have some sense of the negative stigmatizing of fat people. You’re a good writer and a thoughtful person. But I’m not likely to read a blog that goes on and on about carbs and counters and so forth. It’s part of the thing I work so hard to challenge.
But the great (and also problematic) thing about blogging is that everyone gets to have their place. This is your place. You should write what you want to write.
Your fat may have contributed to your fibroids. I don’t know. But do thin women get fibroids? Could dieting have contributed to them?
I’m reluctant to go on with my fat positive thoughts on your blog especially since you say don’t want to participate in the conversation. I may write a post in response to what you’ve written here. My blog is my personal blog and you are always welcome to comment there if you want to but I am reticent to bring my rap into the comments of a blog which clearly supports weight loss as a goal. Healthy eating as a goal. Great! Healthy movement as a goal. Great! Weight loss? I have issues. I think women (and men) should do what ever they want to do to be healthy. Celebrating weight loss is giving in to a fat hating culture. It’s a subtle distinction and one that I think you get.
March 16th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Tish, thanks for your thoughtful comments! You’re more than welcome to respond here or on your blog…you’re still in my aggregator, so I’ll see you either way. It’s not so much that I don’t want to participate in the discussion, but other than your blog, I seem to either be shut out (like on BFB) or I push someone’s buttons and they respond in a pretty nasty fashion. I’m a big believer in the concept of “energy in” = “energy out” and there’s just too much negative energy in some of the places I’ve been.
Anyways, I understand your reluctance to read all about carbs, but for me, that is the thing I’m most interested in, since I believe that part of the inability of people who want to maintain a weight loss and are unable to do so is due to neurochemistry related to diet.
Maybe it’s wishful thinking, and I am open to that being bunk, but honestly, I think there’s a pony in there :).
March 16th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
I’ve never tried to maintain weigh loss. Or weight for that matter. I make food choices based on how they feel. Too many carbs give me a stomach ache and that is no doubt owing to how my particular body deals with carbs. I don’t have trouble believing that some people have neurobiological responses to carbs. And I support your quest for a way to eat that feels good to you.
But, is it weight loss you’re trying to maintain? Or a healthy relationship to food, eating and your body? I can imagine you might say both. And that too is your prerogative. But they don’t always go hand in hand.
I still really like the analogy about your friend and the vacation time. But there is a subtle difference. I like my belly. I don’t feel like your lap is better than my belly. My reaction of hurt is to the idea that you seem to think it is. If I’m wrong about that then I apologize.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
My quest is for health. I am all about a healthy relationship to food, eating, and my body.
If I’m being honest, though, I must admit that I’m pretty happy with the weight loss associated with that, as I found being 375 very painful, both physically and emotionally. The good news, to me, is that I got here from a position of health, not from some artificial, forced dieting. And I believe that I will be content at whatever weight I settle at given non-disordered eating.
By the way, I never meant to imply that my lap is better than yours, and I really am sorry if my post was hurtful, regardless of intent. But as I said, the reason I was happy had only to do with me, and with how I felt badly about myself years ago. I grant you that my relationship with my nieces and nephew wasn’t significantly harmed by my lack of a lap when they were toddlers, but I was sad about it at the time.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Beth, my take on this is that you were jubilant not about having lost weight, but about having gained a lap! these two things do happen to be related, but they are still separate! very separate. so for you to have had a frustrating experience before from not having a lap, and to now be freed from that frustration, by having gained a lap - that’s something pretty different than being about fat (whether it’s fat acceptance or fat loss).
or, who the hell knows, maybe I’m the bull in the china shop today. no bad intentions, though, for what that’s worth.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:22 am
Blocked out of the fat acceptance site. But of course. You can actually take joy in feeling better because you’re controlling your overeating? HERETIC! YOU WILL BURN! :)
March 17th, 2006 at 8:52 am
I liked your analogy about your friend and the fact that “rubbing her face” in a benefit she can’t use would be cruel. But I think this case is a bit different.
Here’s a different analogy: You are preganant and you know your friend is desperately trying. Going to lunch and going on and on about your excitement, nursery colors, etc would be cruel. Writing joyfully about YOUR pregnancy on YOUR blog is not cruel. If a woman is desperately trying, then she probably shouldn’t read your blog as she would find it hurtful.
For every thing that happens to you that you perceive as good, there is someone who is wanting in that area. Should we never celebrate our joys? What a grey, sovietesque world that sounds like to me.
March 17th, 2006 at 9:15 am
Thanks for the analogy, neca. I hadn’t meant to imply any similarities between personal physical aspects and work benefits, the “a ha” I had was how differently I treated personal interactions from what I write here. Lots of people I work with are struggling to lose weight. Some of them have come to me to talk about it, and you know, I would never have gone on about “finding my lap” with any of them, for as you say, that would be cruel. But I didn’t even give it a thought before posting it here.
Also, Tish’s comments help me realize that, even if it isn’t my intent, sometimes comments like my “finding my lap” can help reinforce the “you’re no good unless you lose weight” stereotype. And that’s not at all what I believe!
March 17th, 2006 at 10:34 am
Hi Beth!
I came over via Tish/Fatshadow and I just wanted to applaud your thoughtfulness towards others opinions. I have a lot more thoughts but I can’t seem to articulate them. You’ll just have to trust me that it was all very complimentary, lol. ;o)